This time I woke up in the hotel room, again about a half hour before the alarm went off. I enjoyed my first shower of the convention! Deanna and I went to the convention center and picked up some food from the green room. I reorganized the merch booth and business was steady, some may say brisk. Deanna and I took the time to wander around a bit. On the way out I tried to cut through Wil Wheaton’s line of fans (much quicker than going around) but Deanna pulled me back as it seemed a photo was about to be taken. Wil saw us and said that he was so glad he met me in a casual atmosphere – it made him appreciate the show last night even more. I failed my Good Boyfriend Check and quickly said “thanks a lot, I won’t hold up your fans” when I should have said “thanks a lot, this is Deanna she’s a big fan.” Oops.
We visited the annex building where all the tabletop games were going on and I was catapulted back in time to organizing gaming conventions here in town. Even at the grandest conventions you cannot escape the musky, tightly packed rooms of young and not-so-young men rolling dice, slapping cards and trying to speak over one another. Good times!
While we were gone Wil came to the booth and refused to take free pins and stickers, but overpaid for our latest CD instead.
When we got back I organized a time for the band to perform Rock Band at the Harmonix booth. Allen and Stewie came with their media recorders and there was a lot of reassuring bandmates that it was set on ‘no fail’ mode. We watched a few musical numbers go by with other players to get the gist of things (Warren and I were the only ones who had played the game before). We entered the stage from the opposite side of the “regular” people waiting in line, which caused some confusion. One little kid (maybe 10 years old) didn’t get the memo and he grabbed the guitar before Warren. Even when he was clearly on stage with strangers and not whatever group he was supposed to be with, he was still gung ho to play and had to be escorted off stage by the staff. Too bad, I was all keen to get some new blood in the band. We played “Shhh….” as seen here:
The rest of the day went by mostly at the booth. Throughout Sunday business was steady since by that point people finally knew who we were. Adam and Deanna left early but Stewie stuck around till the end. We packed up our stuff and as I was leaving I threw a “Worship Me Like A God” shirt at Wil Wheaton. I hope he wears it in the spirit it was intended. Stewie, Warren, Mario and I had a sort of band meeting at a sushi place attached to the Max Hotel and discussed what to do about following up on the Rock Band coup. I retrieved the rental car from the valet and, being Canadian and not a car owner, I completely forgot to tip him.
Jordan and Merrick had already left in the van with our gear and merch so we met up to cross the border at the same time. There were absolutely no hassles getting everything back in the country and after I dropped Warren off in Abbotsford and Mario in North Van I finally got home, a huge almost year-long weight lifted off my shoulders!
We want to do it again next year – and this time: band manager!
I woke up in the Green Ronin house a half hour before the alarm went off, which is something that has happened steadily for the past couple of months. I got up and got ready, and as I left I of course locked the door behind me. Immediately after I closed the door I realized that I locked my cell phone inside the house. I knocked quietly at first so that rather than wake up the whole house I’d only wake up the lightest sleeper. Minutes passed and I upgraded my knocking from light to medium and added some doorbell ringing. More time passed and I knocked loudly, repeatedly, with no response. I tried to walk around the house to find a way to B&E but nothing presented itself easily and furthermore I decided that would be a bad idea. I finally decided that I could just use someone else’s mobile to call the GR house when I got to the con. I got in the car and was about to leave when I changed my mind. I knew that as stressed out as I was already, not having my phone would stress me out even more. So I went back and really banged on the door. I seriously thought that at any moment one of the neighbors would poke their head out of a window and yell “Do you have any idea what time it is? Some of us are trying to sleep!”
Finally I heard movement in the house and Nicole let me in. I apologized profusely and made my way to the hotel. I was surprised how busy the Seattle highway was even at 6 in the morning on a Saturday. I hadn’t been to the hotel at all since I got to Seattle so I had to navigate downtown to find it. I had the valet park the car and that’s where it stayed until we left on Sunday.
Soundcheck was moved from 8:30 to 7:30 in the morning. Yes, we had the earliest sound check in the history of rock & roll. Not everyone got the memo so I had to wrangle the musicians out of bed or the exercise room or whathaveyou. The stage was huge!
adampwsmith.com for awesome shots like this
Adam PW Smith showed up and we worked out some details with the lighting guy so that we could get the best possible shots. As soon as we were done I headed out to the booth to set up so we could generate some more sweet sweet sales. We got a lot of people who knew us, and a lot of people who were simply interested in the art on the shirts & CDs, and a lot of people who had heard about us but wanted to know more and/or hear us first before they decided to buy something.
adampwsmith.com for awesome shots like this
Sales were much better on Saturday, but I actually was wishing that we had played on the Friday night. Even though the word on the street was that the Saturday show had a bigger crowd, if we had played Friday, then all of the people milling around on Saturday would know who we were!
I was getting text messages from Deanna and Stewie all morning about their ETA. Deanna was held up at the border for about 3 hours but she finally arrived mid afternoon. I cannot express how thankful I was (and am) that she came. I gave her the biggest hug when I finally figured out which escalator she was waiting for me at. Finally I had someone whom I could rely on 100%, and my stress level dropped again. Shortly after that Stewie and Allen showed up (independently) and we had all our peeps hanging around the booth.
Heather from Harmonix invited the band to come by the Rock Band booth and play our song. The other band members were out shopping around town so Deanna and I decided to explore the exhibitor hall which I hadn’t had the chance to do since I arrived 24 hours previous! They invited me to the Rock Band stage and I was going to play guitar – since that’s the instrument I’m good at on Rock Band – but Stewie & De convinced me to sing and that was of course wise. I sang and the staff at Harmonix played all the instruments – it was fun! I told them I’d arrange a time with the band when we could all come back.
Shortly after the exhibit hall closed we packed up our booth so the enforcers could move it next to the main theater where the bands would be playing. Anamanaguchi played about 20 minutes earlier than we thought which pretty much meant that we were going to play earlier than we thought. Again I had to scramble to wrangle the band and we all went behind stage to get in our costumes.
I am not trying to make excuses when I say that four out of five of us had health problems that night. Merrick and Mario both had back problems (Mario finagled two massages that day out of the staff), Jordan had a bad cold and back problems, and I had a cold, though it wasn’t terrible. Though there were a few rough patches in the performance, I can say without a doubt that each of us gave it his all, and it was a really great show. Here’s the set list for all who care:
The Math Song (we started with a crazy big intro)
Shoggoths Away
Burrow Your Way to My Heart
A Marine Biologist
Cultists On Board
Sleestak and Yeti
The Innsmouth Look (this one almost made it on Rock Band)
Walking on the Moon (The Police cover for the uninitiated)
Hookworm (an oldie but a goodie)
Downtown (in the Cenozoic)
Nyarlathotep
20 Minutes of Oxygen
Colour Me Green (see video)
plus….
That was the set list we prepared long and hard for. What we didn’t expect was the opportunity to get an encore! The crowd was chanting “Dar-kest Dar-kest Dar-kest” which is the hallmark of new fans…our entrenched cronies would have been yelling “Thic-kets Thic-kets Thic-kets” and so Brad told us to get back on stage for an encore. We quickly decided to play “Slave Ship” as that had been on the set list for a while but we had scratched it a couple weeks before the show. As such, Warren hadn’t practiced it at all (he only got in from England 2 weeks before the show) so it wasn’t a solid run-through, but it didn’t matter at that point. We sold them on our antics.
Out of respect for the following bands we didn’t use our dark powers to drain the crowd of their Magic Points and summon Cthulhu, despite the fact that we had 8000 people chanting “IA IA CTHULHU FHTAGN.”
After the performance Mario and I hit the booth in costume and we signed too many CDs and roleplaying games to count. Someone also brought their copy of Bloodcurdling Tales of Horror and the Macabre (the HPL book I started out on) for us to sign.
We hung out and posed for photos and sold merch (well Deanna and Stewie did that part, and a fine job too) and waited for the other bands to finish. The Minibosses, bless their many toes, played for so long that we were dead on our feet from fatigue, staying around for that end-of-concert “rush.” Finally we hauled our remaining merch back to “Bandland” and crawled to the hotel for some much needed sleep.
END OF DAY TWO.
(thanks to Adam PW Smith for use of the photos – adampwsmith.com)
Because of the way Budget Rent-a-Car works we had to rent the car for four days, even though we only needed it for three. As such, I got up at 5:30am on Friday morning. This was the first day of our US “tour” as far as the American Federation of Musicians defines it, which meant we all had to go through the same border crossing at the same time to get our P2 Visa work permits settled. This might not be an issue for most bands but the five of us live in three different cities. Mario and I live in Vancouver (Mario in North Vancouver to be precise), Warren and Jordan live in Abbotsford and Merrick lives on a mountain in Chilliwack. We took two vehicles for the five of us and our gear. Jordan drove Merrick and the gear and I handled the other two band members. First I drove to North Vancouver to pick up Mario then to Abbotsford for Warren, and we met with “Mobile 2” AKA Jordan’s van in the parking lot of the Home Depot on the road to the Abbotsford/Sumas border crossing.
As expected the border crossing took a few moments to process what the hell we were doing. He sent us all inside and we waited while we were ‘processed.’ Actually Officer Vargas was quite nice and I had spoken with him on the phone a few days previous so we had a modicum of a rapport. They stapled the work permits to our respective passports and we were off to Seattle.
I was telling Deanna recently that she has had the rare honour over the past couple of months of seeing me the most stressed I’ve been probably since I moved from Chilliwack to Vancouver and got shingles in 1996. Paperwork is not my strong suit and I’d been dealing with several organizations when I’d rather be in bed or drawing monsters.
Suffice to say once we all got across the border my stress levels dropped dramatically.
It rained pretty hard while we were getting lost trying to find our way to the Guide Meridian highway. I don’t like driving, and that includes the highway into Seattle and the streets of Seattle proper. But we found parking underneath the convention center and checked in. We swaggered up to the VIP registration where I was given the shoes I ordered over eBay and somewhat inappropriately had sent to PAX since the shipper wouldn’t send to Canada. They were really kickass plaid converse though, and I learned that there was some confusion as Robert Khoo has the same shoe size as me.
A large utilikilted Australian named Macca was our wrangler and he showed us around to the green room, the stage, and our booth in “Bandland.” The green room was fully stocked all weekend and I only paid for two meals over the weekend. Our booth was on the end of one side of the hall and we luckily were set up with an extra table because of it. I say luckily because I overestimated how much merchandise we’d need for the convention and we really needed that extra space. Unfortunately it took the staff about 1 1/2 hours for them to track down the location of our merch, which we had sent down ahead of time, and bring it to our booth. So I had to sit at a table with nothing but stickers and buttons on it and try to explain what exactly The Darkest of the Hillside Thickets meant.
Speaking of buttons – what a great call to print up a new set of buttons for PAX (thanks Stewie for another in a string of genius ideas). Buttons were all the rage at PAX and we sold lots.
Sales for the Friday were pretty weak, which made my stress levels rise back up, and most of the band members were off exploring which left me and Mario to break open the boxes and organize the shirts. Nicole from Green Ronin Publishing brought boxes of Spaceship Zero the Roleplaying Game – the ENnie-award winning tabletop rpg that Warren and I wrote right after we recorded Spaceship Zero: Original Motion Picture Soundtrack – which actually did reasonably well over the course of the weekend. I had toyed with the idea of running a demo of the game on Sunday but as the course of the weekend drew on and I got more groggy, it became clear that my time would be more valuable in front of a few hundred people passing the booth than for four hours in front of 6 people, even if it is a super fun game.
At 5pm there was a “Musical Guests Panel” that we were, as musical guests, invited to be on. Merrick sat at the booth while the rest of us went across the street to another theater in a different building. We didn’t know what to expect, and we got exactly that. Each band had about 3 people on average and one microphone, so for most of the panel most people didn’t have anything to say. The moderator had a couple questions for the panel and then he opened it up to the audience. We were situated between Anamanaguchi and Freezepop. There were some interesting discussions on how to make money as a band and copyrights. Here’s how it ended:
There was a cock up at the hotel – they were supposed to supply us with four big beds but they gave us four ‘super singles’ which meant that someone had to sleep on the floor. Knowing that Deanna was going to be here on Saturday for a sleepover I volunteered to take the floor that night rather than do the old straw-drawing, because there was no way I was going to not have a bed on Saturday night.
As it turns out, at about 9pm that night the rest of the guys took off to the hotel but I stayed at the booth to see if any lingering sales could be made from the Wil Wheaton line runoff. Nicole showed up and we started chatting. She was waiting for Wil to finish up as they happened to be old friends and the Green Ronin crew, which is to say Chris, Nicole and Kate, had dinner plans with Wil. She asked me if I had eaten – I had not and yes of course I’d love to go to dinner with them and Mr Wheaton.
We went to something like the Brimstone Brewery or some such where of course the place was teeming with gamers. Wil had heard of the band from John “Dork Tower/Pokethulhu/Munchkin” Kovalic and other friends who apparently had been encouraging him to listen to us but he had never actually listened to us, so that was interesting to learn.
The conversation that night went from D&D 4th edition to Chris & Nicole’s adventures at a Finnish game convention (involving naked wrestling and heavy drinking) to creepy fans who invite you back to their place to meet the girlfriend. Wil was functioning on 2 hours of sleep and the staff were, shall we say, less than enthused about their choice of careers that night. Wil tried to order a vegetarian pizza and the only way the waitress could understand it was if he ordered a meat lover’s pizza, hold the meat. This was the first of two non-green room meals that weekend, and it was a night to remember. Many nerd references were thrown about and mediocre but affordable food was consumed.
After dinner Nicole, Kate and Wil headed to the concerts (Freezepop, Johnathan Coulton and the Oneups were playing that night) but Pramas and I decided to pack it in. We bartered such that I would give him a ride home in my rental car and he would let me sleep on the Green Ronin guest couch. The best part of the deal was that I also got a beautiful Freeport map out of the deal. Which is convenient because I’m running a freeport 3.75 D&D campaign.
When we recorded the songs for “The Shadow Out of Tim” we had two extra tracks that we didn’t put on the album because they didn’t fit in thematically. That is to say, they had nothing to do with a musical adaptation of Lovecraft’s The Shadow Out of Time. We decided to save them for the next album and…whatever opportunities came in between. We submitted them to the CFOX Seeds competition but nothing came of that.
When we were graciously invited back to PAX this year (thanks Jerry) one of the reasons I was so stoked about it was that the people from Rock Band and Guitar Hero would be there and would have a chance to see us live. We dared to dream that maybe they would like us enough that they’d consider adding us to their respective rosters.
Little did we know that the people at Harmonix already knew about the band, and that they and the Penny Arcade guys were planning on doing a pack of songs that tied in with the convention. In mid-July Robert Khoo introduced us to the Harmonix folks (via email). They didn’t have any particular track in mind. We suggested something off the new album to promote it, but we also pointed out that we had unused tracks and that we shouldn’t dismiss some of our best work from past albums (Math Song, 20 Minutes of Oxygen). As much as some of our songs are fun or rockin’ or whathaveyou, I knew some of them wouldn’t be appropriate for the video game. I imagine the criteria they have to consider would be length of the song, variety, appropriate lyric content (I make a point not to swear in the lyrics anyway), and a fair balance of the four instruments the game utilizes.
They initially decided on “The Innsmouth Look.” I was a little surprised they chose it, but since it was a definite Lovecraft riff I thought it was a good representation of the band for all those Rock Band players who had never heard of us.
An interesting point is that they wanted to get us involved in the project months prior, but because of our inability to confirm at that point they had to pass us over. It’s no secret on the internet that MC Chris was confirmed for PAX but then cancelled, and that opened up the slot for us to sneak in at the 11th hour.
The time squeeze, however, was against us. We recorded Spaceship Zero in 1999, on ADATs which are basically VHS tapes used in a special machine. That format is outmoded now and since the recording studio we used was dissolved by 54-40 we didn’t have access to the “stems” of the song that Harmonix needed to use to put the song on the game. We spent a weekend trying to hunt down equipment to get this done but since time was such an issue we suggested to Harmonix to pick a backup track off the newer material. “Shhh….” was their choice.
By this time it was well into August and the band had been practicing a very dedicated setlist for months. Warren wouldn’t be back in Canada until mid-August and the idea of re-learning how to play “Shhh….” live (we hadn’t played it for about a year) was pretty sketchy, so as much as we would have liked to play it during our performance at PAX, we just weren’t confidant we could pull it off in the two weeks we had left for rehearsals. Keep in mind that the five band members live in three different cities so typically we meet once a week at best. You don’t want to blow your performance in front of 10,000 fans and potential fans and industry bigwigs!
Finally PAX came and we met with the Harmonix staff as they went by our merch booth and we went by the Rock Band exhibit. I cannot say enough about how cool the Harmonix staff were. Very nice, very excited to work with us, very professional and fun! Heather invited us to come and play our song on Rock Band at their exhibit, and so I wrangled up the members of the band for a set time on Sunday.
If you’ve ever played Rock Band and played a musical instrument, you know that one does not necessarily translate to the other. I can play guitar on Rock Band well, but I can’t play a real guitar. Mario, Merrick and Jordan had never played Rock Band before, and they were somewhat nervous to do so. To our great relief Heather told us that the game was set to “no fail” so we knew that no matter how poorly we played the game we’d still get all the way through the song.
What a hoot! I was surprised by the tambourine/cowbell deal on the singing section of the song – since the actual song has no such parts! Since there were only four instruments but five band members, Mario hung out and coached Jordan on the drums. At the end of the song we through out a spare tentacle on stage and by luck the one who caught it was a fan – he had us autograph it.
Since we’ve got back we’re trying to keep the promo ball rolling on this amazing, once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for us: the only Canadian indie band on Rock Band!
Today I added a bunch of lights to my costume. I still have to add the spine protrusions but thanks to Kelly & Paul I had a working drill to get that started.
Here’s my tiny light saga:
Knowing I wanted some tiny lights on my costume, but keeping in mind that I don’t know how to solder properly or safely, and not having time to fiddle around with that much detail, I polled my friends for suggestions. Main Street Electronics was a bust not only because they didn’t have self-contained, ready-to-go lights in the store, but the old white men were not interested in helping me, talking to me, acknowledging me, or even hearing me. Luckily a few doors down was Lee’s Electronics. I knew describing what I was looking for was going to be challenging, but I think these guys finally got it when I saw those little keychain lights that you squeeze to turn on ($2.50 each). Luckily they had a wide variety and these things have a “stay on” switch so I won’t have to squeeze eight key chain lights while I’m trying to sing on stage. They also had a flashing red bike light for $5. Deal.
I biked down to Mountain Equipment Co-op and found amongst their many bike lights only one item that was under $9 – a small Coleman light in the shape of a lantern. It was $7 and I hemmed and hawed about whether or not to get it because, apart from being $2 over my loosely self-imposed $5-per-light limit, I didn’t like the “vibe” of MEC. I finally decided I might as well take it but when I got to the register I noted that apparently you have to pay a membership fee to purchase there. The light went back on the shelf and I hit the road.
An unsuccessful stop at London Drugs and Home Depot had me at Canadian Tire, where they had these great little push-on/off stick-em lights in various colours. I grabbed two packs of 4 ($10 each) and at the checkout stand I saw a little laser pointer/flexi-necked reading light that was perfect. With all that totalling about $50, plus the free Ikea lights that Jeremy generously supplied, I felt I had enough!
Here are the photos of the work in progress:
I attached a red light to the end of my head hose-claw.
All of the keychain lights are attached to the chains – or attached to the things attached to the chains. They point at the ground creating a cool effect.
The red flashing bike light is affixed to the chest piece.
You can see one of the green stick-on lights which I hot-glue-gunned to the Darth Vaderesque chest panel. The flexi-necked light points up at my face to create a spooooooky ambiance! I can also handily point it down towards the set list on the ground when the stage lights fail me!
Here’s one of Jeremy’s Ikea wire-lights on. Not totally sold on my application of it but I figure I can keep it off until I really need that extra festive oomph.
I’ve added lights to the tips of my spine-spools (thanks EmbroidMe!) and I’ll be zap-strapping them to the back of my flight suit in short order! Move over, Circue de Soleil!
Today I went to my very first comic convention as an artist rather than a browser/buyer.
But I’ll back up.
The guy who organizes the bi-monthly comic cons that normally happen at Heritage Hall on Main street finagled the annual “Comix & Stories” to happen at the Vancouver Art Gallery in concert with the comic exhibit “Krazy!” I, as you know, have been working on various comic book projects, so I thought I would sieze this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to be at a comic convention in the VAG, even though I don’t actually have any complete comic books to sell (that is, comics with my artwork in them). I’m working on the Rhinosferatu story for the Cloudscape Comics Collective anthology and of course The Underbelly with Kolja for his website, but neither would be ready for the con.
When the organizer said that he would be publishing an anthology for the Comix & Stories convention and that all artists who would be at the con could submit, I thought it was the perfect opportunity to have something with a semblance of completeness to show/sell at the con. So I worked my ass of but ultimately my project (a tangential origin story of one of The Underbelly’s background characters) was rejected. Nevertheless, I finished a somewhat rushed page of Rhinosferatu (I’ll put it up shortly) so that I could have a sample for a brochure I put together with a little bio and mini-portfolio of comic stuff. That worked out decently but I quite literally finished it at Kinko’s on the way to the convention (it’s been a busy week folks).
Unlike the regular comicon’s at Heritage Hall which all happen in one big room, this con was split up not just between three rooms but three floors, each more warm than the last. I was on the middle floor (actually the 3rd floor, there was nothing on floor 2) and although turnout was decent I think it would have been way better for the floor 3 and 4 people if finding these rooms wasn’t confusing and winding.
I shared my table with a nice woman named Dex Thompson who Deanna got to know and I brought some buttons, stickers and CDs with me. The buttons sold reasonably well AND I got paid for my back cover of Outnumbered #2 (which was published and released at the con – my first paid comic book work!) AND I got a new sketch of Rhinosferatu by Steve “Much the Miller’s Son” Lecoulliard (stand by for that) AND Mike “Space Jet” Myhre promised to do one for me at the September con (he’s just getting into Lovecraft so we chatted briefly about that).
So it was quite fun all in all and I’m glad I did it, but man was I worn out from all the running around and lack of sleep. Super awesome thanks to Deanna and Kolja for moral support and watching my table so I could pee and chat with other artists at their tables, and thanks to Kelly, Paul, Geoff, and Jason for coming down to visit. Yay!
Plus now I can say I’ve had my artwork in the VAG.
It all started back when we were playing Call of Cthulhu a couple years ago. Caleb, the keeper of arcane lore (the CoC version of the Dungeon Master) lent his copy of Dungeon: Duck Heart to me. I read this French produced comic book knock off of D&D and really liked it, but I didn’t want to borrow another volume because I knew I didn’t have time to read it.
Flash forward to last week or so. Now I’m working on comic books, finally, and since my studio is above RX Comics I am in the comic shop weekly to see what’s on the shelves – something that hasn’t happened since I had a box subscription at the comic shop in Abbotsford while I went to college there. On top of a pile of books I saw this:
I flipped through it and saw that there were two stories in the book. I remembered how much I liked Duck Heart and decided to give this a go. It was wonderful! Charming, cunning, hilarious, and pleasing to the eye. I was so taken that I went back in to RX a day or two later and asked if they had more. And they do! I picked up this:
which was even better than the other two. Another couple of days and I’ve picked up two more, which I haven’t read yet. But I just had to blog about the best comic book find since Hellboy!
I don’t really consider myself a comic collector. I don’t pick up titles regularly. I don’t have a box at a local comic store. If it wasn’t for the fact that my studio is over a comic book store, I wouldn’t go in every week. But as it is, I have been checking out what’s on the stand (always wise if you’re getting into the business), and something came out this week that I am very happy to add to my comic pile.
In 2004 I was in contact with Marcus Moore, with whom I traded some Rocket Robin Hood episodes on VHS. He was at the time working on some stuff for Hoverboy: The Republican Super-Hero! The stuff I saw was great – he was working on cartoons that “borrowed” from Rocket Robin Hood, Spider-Man and the Fleischer Supermans. I won’t over-describe, you should just go [here] and see for yourself. The depth of hoaxitude with all the ‘archival material’ puts Spaceship Zero to shame. So when I stumbled upon Hoverboy #1 on the stands at RX Comics I snapped it up. And believe you me, it does not disappoint! This comic gets the Toren Atkinson Stamp of Approval. Don’t be a commie – shell out the $3.99 for good old American-Made (actually Canadian) product!
(Or if you’re weird and can’t make it to a comic shop, I can grab one for you.)
It’s going to be hard to top this new version of The Joker. Even though he’s my least favourite Batman villain (after possibly The Riddler) this is the most lethal and interesting I’ve seen him in or out of the comics. Batman Begins and Dark Knight are the least comic-bookish of the comic book movies, which is to say the most gritty and down-to-earth. There is super-technology but no super-powers besides, you know…normal ninja stuff. As such, here are some Batman villains that I think they can introduce into this new Batman franchise:
Villains that they won’t introduce because they are too cartoony:
Mr. Freeze (my favourite)
Clayface (my other favourite)
Killer Croc
Man-Bat
And lest we forget Egghead.
X2 (WolverineÂ’s backstory): 8
The Dark Knight: 8
Spider-Man 2 (Doctor Octopus): 8
Spider-Man (Green Goblin): 8
X-Men (Brotherhood of Mutants): 7
Superman Returns: 7
Incredible Hulk: 6
Batman Begins: 6
X-Men: The Last Stand (Phoenix/Mutant Cure/the one with Toren in it): 6.5
Hulk (Ang LeeÂ’s): 6.5
Spider-Man 3 (Venom & Sandman): 6
Iron Man: 5
Electra: 5
Fantastic Four (Doom): 3
4: Rise of the Silver Surfer: 3
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