I am not patriotic. I think Canada is, comparatively, an excellent country in which to live and work. But I don’t feel I owe anything to a region of the planet that is marked by abstract boundaries from other such regions, that is governed by a bunch of rich white people who don’t care about me or millions of others like (or unlike) me, and that is founded on the blood of many people of all sorts of races and creeds, but particularly the aborigines.
Patriotism actually irks me. It seems such a backward, outdated idea. Why can’t we get past it? I’m sure different people have different reasons to feel patriotic, but quite often my sense is that it’s just a team spirit mentality – no different than being on a sports team whose motto is, essentially, “we’re better than you.” People around the world are pretty much the same. People of every skin colour, every religion, every nationality can be nice and can be jerks; can be humanitarians and can be rapists. I’ve known Asians and Native Americans and East Indians and they all laugh and say ‘good morning’ and jerk off and have their crabby days (presumably not all at the same time). Now if none of those groups of people are any better or worse than the rest of us, how silly is it to think that a group separated by an imaginary line on a map is any better or worse?
The other reason patriotism bugs me is its association with war. I don’t like war. I am against war. War is hell. And whenever war pops up, people start waving flags around. I guess my logic is a little flawed with this criticism of patriotism – it’s like being against hats because I don’t like the heads they’re on. Except hats keep people’s heads warm – patriotism has no practical purpose that I can see.
To be patriotic is to have pride. Now, I have pride in certain things – I’m proud of the book I wrote, of some paintings and drawings I’ve done. (I’m also critical of these things but that’s beside the point.) But to have pride in your association with a geographical location, or a body of people of whom you actually know only the most minute percentage? That doesn’t make much sense to me. But I have patriotic friends. You know who you are. You have your reasons, I’m sure, which I assume make sense to you and maybe someday they’ll make sense to me. I’m not expecting everyone to have the same beliefs as I. If you’ve got a good reason to be patriotic, besides “because Canada ROCKS!”, I’ll respect that. But for the time being I just wanted you to know that even though my birth certificate and driver’s license say I’m on the same team as you, I won’t be waving the “where I was born is important” flag. I am proud to associate with you for reasons that have nothing to do with nationality. And you’ll find I can be just as much a friend to Americans (and presumably others, should I get to know them).
What is that saying that I like to quote all the time? “There can be no world peace while patriotism exists.”
What if we’re patriotic for a country we weren’t born or live in, like Canada?
CANADA ROCKS!
(from a Yank)
Reasons I like living in Canada:
1) I don’t know how to go about getting a handgun… no idea…
2) I can go to the hospital and have open heart surgery, and still will only have to pay for my piddly $49 per month share of our collective medical bill
3) I will never go hungry, or want for access to education/social assistance if I wanted/needed it
It’s amazingly messed up that you need to live within some lines on a map to enjoy these things, doncha think?
Patriotism serves a useful purpose IMO. Yes, people are people and human nature is human nature is human nature. But cultures are very different with very different approaches. I think that to be patriotic (i.e. support in opposition to another cultural approach you disagree with) is a way for many people to band together to express (and try to propogate) a given view to others who are outside that culture. For example, rule of law and womens rights. Those things are important in the US. Not so much in other places. I like the US government to support those things abroad (and at home!) and when it does I can fairly be proud (maybe even patriotic) about telling the Taliban where to go.
On another (ahem) note (OK bad pun), I just love the music y’all make. Listen to it at least once a week on my drive.
For the most part my reaction to this observation is Amen to that Brother.
However, in acknowledgement of the part of me that insists on a little semantic hair splitting I thought we should distinguish Patriotism and Jingoism. You see, in your comments Im inclined to suspect that what you really cant abide is the unthinking cheerleading behind people who support or love their country simply because they happen to have been born or are currently occupying a certain patch of dirt. They have no criteria for their love of nation that is in any way more sophisticated than tribal thought which more or less suggests My clan human, your clan meat.
A Patriot in my books is someone who looks at their country and tallies the good and bad things about it and decides that the good outweigh the bad and it deserves his (at least nominal) support. A Patriot is capable of being proud of their country (which is all really just self stroking because that pride is just a way of patting yourself on the back for being part of it) but at the same time able to be critical of its faults. A Jingoist (the people I think youre really talking about) cant get past anything more meaningful than My country, Right or Wrong.
I agree with Grondzilla entirely. Open-minded patriotism is good. Jingoism, which implies a closed mind and fanatical devotion, is not.
I think I agree with the man in the funny costume.
I’ve always thought pride in uncontrollable things is silly. When people speak of Italian pride, or Latino pride, or White pride, they are proud of something they had no control over.
This has always seemed silly to me. “Great job for being born white, Larry. Keep up the good work.”
I don’t see much difference between racial pride and geographical pride, to be honest. Your parents could have just as easily conceived you anywhere on the planet. The location of your conception was completely out of your control.
Texans, in particular, have far too much pride in being Texans. Ive seen t-shirts here that say F*ck Yall, Im from Texas.
After giving them 27 invisible punches in the mouth, I can usually walk by without incident (one punch for every state in the union before they became a state).
I need to move, dont I?
Jason: Okay, women’s rights is good, it’s true. But that should be the STANDARD for the entire world and to be proud that you live in a country that is ALMOST up to snuff in one area while many others are sucking horribly is not entirely rational. But really, that’s beside my point. You, Jason, didn’t come up with or implement the laws that govern the US. You can say “hey these laws are good” and be proud to obey them, and be happy they’re there. The people who made up the laws are people you don’t know, and who are probably dead. Now, you can be proud of those SPECIFIC PEOPLE – even more so if you are actually friends with them – but those specific people and what they instituted is a lot different than THE ENTIRE PACKAGE THAT IS THE USA.
The Taliban is a group of fanatics that live in a country. They are not representative of Afghans and although you may think that the bulk of your countries beliefs and policies are superior to the bulk of Afghanistan’s beliefs and policies but if you think the average US CITIZEN is “better” than the average Afghan…well, I’m hoping you don’t think that.
At any rate, you will notice that I keep my politics OUT of The Thickets lyrics and I hope that you will keep on rockin’ out!
Ah, but I do come up with the laws that govern the US. I am really on the MJ-12 steering committee (just kidding! 🙂 pay no attention to the MIB). More seriously, I do vote in every election, give $ to political causes I support (as part of an organized political effort with otherse) and write my senators.
In terms of the entire package of the US, I am proud to be part it. Patriotic even. Not because of some jingoistic tribalism, but because I agree think my country has a cultural and philosophical approach I agree in issues that matter most to me. That makes me support what we do in most (but far from all) cases.
In the music world, don’t worry about it. I recognize that to be an artist (in any media) it is almost a litmus test for one’s personal politics to be left of center (although I don’t quite know why). Hell, I am left of center on some issues (pro-labor, envirmentally green, support womens’ rights) but not others. If I only listened to music by people I agreed with politically, life would be pretty silent. I just love Rage Against the Machine, despite thinking their Stalinism is (well, was as they are defunct) problematic.
Any chance ye will be playing at the HPL film festival again? I would love to see you guys play live.
Ugh, with proofreading.
Ah, but I do come up with the laws that govern the US. I am really on the MJ-12 steering committee (just kidding! 🙂 pay no attention to the MIB). More seriously, I do vote in every election, give $ to political causes I support (as part of an organized political effort with others) and write my senators.
In terms of the entire package of the US, I am proud to be part it. Patriotic even. Not because of some jingoistic tribalism, but because I think my country has a cultural and philosophical approach that works better than other models. That makes me support what we do in most (but far from all) cases.
In the music world, dont worry about it. I recognize that to be an artist (in any media) it is almost a litmus test for ones personal politics to be left of center (although I dont quite know why). Hell, I am left of center on some issues (pro-labor, envirmentally green, support womens rights) but not others. If I only listened to music by people I agreed with politically, life would be pretty silent. I just love Rage Against the Machine, despite thinking their Stalinism is (well, was as they are defunct) problematic.
Any chance ye will be playing at the HPL film festival again? I would love to see you guys play live.